Talk:Amethyst Harper

Nice article. Like the story there. But, I really want to know what happened in Persephone, and more about her background and whatnot. Are you going to mark this a WIP? GeneralGoose 16:09, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Just to let you know, physical damage does not result in CIP, it is caused by random mutations in the relevant genes or increased production of endorphins in the brain. Also, why would they okay a space program when Ryan was obviously against any contact with the outside surface and since you can launch a space ship out of the ocean they'd need to have constant contact with the surface to build the relevant infrastructure and the ship itself. ALSO ^.^ Radiation does not cause any physical pain to my knowledge. ALSO :D, it makes no sense that Ryan would reveal what he did to her daughter since he is not a particularly cocky man and it would have been of no use to reveal information like that needlessly.  [Composite 4] (My Talk)

@ Composite 4

I'm aware that trauma is not the common source of CIP, but nerve insensitivty can become a direct result of physical trauma (i.e. spinal trauma). I used CIP as an umbrella term for the condition given that the end result I intended is the exact same. In terms of the space program, it's evident that Ryan still maintained contact with the surface through his statements in Ryan Amusemetns regarding invitations to the surface. As well, the fact that he can conceal the Lighthouse's detection (for the most part) could not be without careful surveillance of surrounding ocean (thus, a part of the surface). It seems feasable (neigh, probable) that, like the power-hungry individuals on the surface less then a decade later, he would see the benefit in orbital surveillance to maintain observation of the enemy (his general one being the surface) to protect his city's secret.

Regarding the impossibility of an underwater spacelaunch, I mentioned the "Buoyancy launch" in this respect. That would be, forcing the rocket to the surface at high speeds via the buoyancy of air tanks, and launching with fuel from there. Marine rocketry isn't an impossible feat, not on the surface or in Rapture, as it is one of the primary concepts of Nuclear armed submarines. Your knowledge of radiation seems somewhat bleak ^_^ Infra-red radiation, the direct source of heat which can be seen (even through Earth's atmosphere) to burn and blister humans, would be unbearably more intense in space without appropriate shielding. There would be pain. I would also argue in the respect that Andrew Ryan is indeed a very cocky man. Audio Diaries of his debates with Lamb display a very sure and egotistic leader, and (assuming you've beaten BioShock 1) the BioShock 1 ending pretty much DEFINED him in this way, given that he was willing to end his life to prove a point about free will, with no insurance that Jack would beat Fontaine. It's no less needless then him revealing Jack's origins to him.

@ General Goose

I probably should have marked it as a work in progress, but I was unsure as to where I might go from there. I want to leave her story somewhat open ended, so that it might continue in some way again, but I'm not sure which parts to elaborate on or where to have her stop. Any constructive criticism or recomendations to that regard, as any are, would be welcomed and appreciated ^_^ --Anno~AD~Domini 22:36, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well, now I pretty much agree with all that you've explained to me except the space program. Now, I am all for creativity but I think one obvious flaw to your explanation is the fact that launching a rocket from the middle of the ocean will obviously attract attention to its source. I have researched nuclear missile technology and found out (to my surprise ^.^) that launching the rocket is...not possible. I found out that the reason that NASA launches their shuttles in Florida is because of the speed boost that being near the equator gives them. Additionally, the launch from the ocean to surface severely decreases the speed at which the shuttle moves at and it would not be able to escape Earth's gravitational pull. Not to mention that the massive amounts of rocket fuel in an enclosed room under the sea would cause obvious disaster.  [Composite 4] (My Talk)

One more thing, Ryan is not a unnecessarily aggressive man. As you know from playing BS1, his aggression was targeted at those who opposed his ideas. Amethyst shows no opposition to his ideas outright and thus Ryan has no reason to reveal that information just to hurt her. Ryan may have been corrupt but he did not go around hurting the feeling of everybody he encountered.  [Composite 4] (My Talk)

I understand the impracticalities of an undersea launch, but I wouldn't consider them impossibilities. As well, NASA's choice for launch point is one to promote optimal results, but it isn't a necessary one. The fact that rocket fuel ingniting in an enclosed area would be disasterous is evident by the fact that the program ultimately does end in disaster. Furthermore there was no intention of attempting to use the rocket fuel underwater as is. If you believe the obstacle of water to make it impossible for launch, consider the force with which a simple rubber ball, filled with air, pushes towards the surface of water when submerged. Imagine that same affect intentionally directed with airtanks used to launch a craft from it's not-so-lengthly depth. Not only would the craft be able to break its depth, but give a brief jump after which rockets would provide the rest of the lift. Regarding the probability of detection, there is not a doubt in my mind that a rocket launch would look like a large flare screaming "Look, here's an underwater city!" I have no practical argument in this case, so I'm instead using a somewhat less practical one.

At a time when rocketry was still largely in its development stage, only true world powers would be directly concerned with their use and launch. This would include the United States, Soviert Union, and Republic of China at the time. If you'd like toss the Kingdom of Britain in as well, they're the closest possible to detect the launch, though as far as I know had no active program which would concern itself with such launches. There wasn't actual field activity involving ICBMs (after which EVERY rocket would be suspicious) for at least another three years. I don't know close to anything about Iceland or Greenland, which is where I admit that this argument is entirely less practical.

Finally, regarding the wickedness of Andrew Ryan, I don't think he would be unnescessarily cruel in typical situations, but I wouldn't be quick to determine the morality of a man who incarcerated what may have been hundreds at the slight risk of mutiny (for the record, I had complete faith in the good intention of Ryan before BioShock 2). Uponing reviewing that part of the article, however, it states that he revealed this before she had returned to the lab. Therefore it could be reasonably concluded that it was part of his general ultimatum to lure her back into his grip to ensure her silence. --Anno~AD~Domini 23:49, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

The fact of the matter still remains that people working on such a program would have been intelligent enough to foresee such a disaster and thus going through with a test launch would have been deemed too dangerous. Furthermore, none of us here are versed in the science behind launching a space shuttle but at the current time it was a feat to launch a space craft from land let alone water and my previous arguments still remain valid against its launch. In addition, whether or not ICBM was an issue during the time the simple sight of something like that being launched out of the water would obviously raise suspicion from the world powers and they would not hesitate to find its source and logically Ryan would foresee this and weigh that the negative effects of a launch outweigh the benefits. This makes the whole idea implausible.  [Composite 4] (My Talk)

Which valid part of your speculative argument makes my speculative argument invalid? What notable event in history designates that flaws or miscalculations don't occur in spaceflight, even when overseen by experts in the field? Which statement designates the distance at which the visiblity of a fictional spaceship is no longer evident by concerned parties? (It's worth noting that the single occurance of a rocket launch would be exceptional startling cause for concern, but no more so then the spotting of submarines along US Coastlines going on without any serious investigation at a time when submarines were a common tool of national enemies.)

The plausiblity of events described in my article is completely context sensitive, that context being whether one of us is dramatically inaccurate in our concept of rocket travel, whether any effective people would even be capable of playing witness to an event like a launch that far away, and whether there are any serious flaws in judgement (regarding poor test choices) in an underwater city where a cancerous drug that induces insanity is promoted by even the city's founder. In the scope of my proposed Fanon, and the strange absence of any notably serious developments in rocket physics in a city full of masterful engineers and scientists, it's less plausable to assume there never was or ever could be an event like this. Anno~AD~Domini 01:11, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree completely, it is one thing to see a submarine vessel but another to outright ignore a rocket launching out of the middle of the sea. But we can come to a sort of compromise because while I don't agree with you the idea is not bad writing. You can think of your own fixes but right now I think the most conducive thing to the flow of your story is simply saying that the idea was considered but was not taken past the test stages, you'd have to nix the disaster but you could come up with another way of her finding out about her child, maybe a guilty conscience at her work revealed it to her? Let me know what you think.  [Composite 4] (My Talk)

What if I simply (or not so simply, depending on how hard I work on it) lampshaded the evident risks/problems? ^_^ It's something the BioShock canon does beautifully, and I'd like to think I could try and do the same. If you're not familiar with the concept I can provide a few examples. I'd at least like to try it before dumping the idea altogether. Anno~AD~Domini 02:02, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

There's no harm in trying, we'll see how it works out and if not we'll try to come to another compromise. :)  [Composite 4] (My Talk)

I'll try to post some material to that respect later tonight. I've been a bit busy since yesterday, but schedule should clear up long enough to at least write some diaries or something. Anno~AD~Domini 19:58, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Finally got around to posting a few diaries- four of them. If you give me the ok-go, I'll start working on an article for the RSP tomorrow. Also, if there's a topic you think I hardly touched on in my lampshading, or something you'd want me to elaborate on, just ask and I'd be glad to. Anno~AD~Domini 06:25, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Nice work there with the audio diaries. May I ask where you got the pictures from? GeneralGoose 17:42, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Damn, you explained how they were able to go through with the plan perfectly, kudos!  [Composite 4] (My Talk)

Thank you, with the audio diaries I tried my best to address the matters the same way ones in the games did- startled reactions, just the right amount of problems, and in the end just chalking it up to corporate greed (which I think the multitude of Rapture problems have been a result of). I actually got the photos from a couple of different places with stocks of old unidentified photographs, but this was my main source: Unknown Old Photos. The majority of them are likely from the late 1800s, and nearly all have highly out-dated formal attire, which betrays the era a bit, but it's a noteworthy source regardless. --Anno~AD~Domini 23:26, May 3, 2010 (UTC)